Tuesday, February 24, 2015

Sonnets Discussion

Here are the discussion questions:

  1. What is “this” in the couplet of Sonnet 18?
  2. Does the speaker “trade the memory of this night for food?”
Make sure you use evidence to support your answers!!!

36 comments:

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  2. 1. "This" in the couplet of sonnet of 18 means the poem itself, because the last line says "So long lives this, and this gives life to thee" and this means that so long as the poem exists, the poem with give her life, be her legacy

    2. No, she would not trade the memory for food, because in the couplet she reveals that despite love's drawbacks (which she listed) she still values it as much as anybody else.

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  3. "This" in the poem refers to the poem. "This" is a pronoun that replaces things, not people. Therefore, "This" refers to the poem rather than the person.

    He did not trade the memory of this night for food. That is impossible and in the end he says; “I do not think I would”

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  4. "This" in the couplet of Sonnet 18 is the memory of this person the Shakespeare devotes his poem to. In the last few lines he says:
    "Nor shall Death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
    When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st;
    So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
    So long lives this, and this gives life to thee." Using the lines before as context clues, "this" is her spirit/memory of the love he has for his loved one.

    The speaker does not "trade the memory of this night for food" because after the author states all the reasons for not falling in love she contradicts herself by ending it with "I don't think I would."

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  5. I think "This" in the couplet of sonnet 18 is about intercourse. No he does not trade the memory for food.

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  6. In sonnet 18, the “this” in the couplet is referring to the sonnet itself. In line 12, the sonnet is referring to the eternal lines of the poem, and how, with time, the memory of the person he was writing about will grow. He then goes on to say that as long as men can see and breath, then the memory of the person in the sonnet will live on, and the sonnet continues to give life to the person. Because beauty only lasts as long as a person is alive, I think that Shakespeare wanted to be able to preserve the beauty that this person had in a poem that he knew would be read for years after their times had ended.

    In sonnet 30, I don’t think the speaker really gives up food. During the first and first half of the second quatrain, the speaker talks about how love will not provide you with the physical necessities that are needed for human survival, and it won’t fix physical wounds. However, even then, men are making friends with death, they’re killing themselves, out of lack of love alone. What this means, and the way that it changes the poem, is that, even though love can’t provide you with physical needs or heal physical wounds, it definitely does show the ways that, without love in our lives, we can’t really survive in a stable way, as it is a basic human emotional need. So, when the speaker says that, if given the chance to trade love or the memories of the night spent in love for food in a time of desperate need, they don’t think that they would do it, regardless of how much the food is needed.

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  7. 1) What is “this” in the couplet of Sonnet 18?
    -I believe that “this” is the actual poem Shakespeare is writing to compare his loved one to a summer’s day. This is best supported by the couplet stating, “So long as man can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.” The first line is emphasizing that as long people can see his loved one they will see that they are as beautiful as a summer’s day, while the second line is concreting the poem to the loved one, and stating that these comparisons will stay with them as long as they are alive.

    2) Does the speaker “trade the memory of this night for food?”
    -I have come to the conclusion that the poet does not trade the memory she shared with her loved one for food. The purpose of a sonnet is to give the reader different points of view on the authors central idea. The quatrains are leading up to the couplet explaining how love may not replace living essentials such as food or shelter. However in the couplet it states, “Or trade the memory of this night for food, It may well be. I do not think I would.” The author decides that she chooses her loved one over physical needs, thus she does not trade the memory for food.

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  8. 1. "This" in the couplet of sonnet 18 is the poem its self. I also think it means the bond he has with that significant other but than again that's is what the poem is pretty much about and that is why I think "this" is the poem and what the poem means.
    2. The speaker does not "trade the memory of this night for food". In the last line the speaker says "I do not think I would" from reading that it answered the question and there was not much thinking to do. Even though it says I think, that I think turned to a no from the way the speaker talked about it through the poem.

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  9. “This” in the poem is the poem itself. He wants to capture the beauty of his muse, and he wants his muse to be eternal. A person cannot be immortal, however the poem describing the person can. “But thy eternal summer shall not fade nor lose possession of that fair thou ow’st; nor shall Death brag thou wander’st in his shade, when in eternal lines to time thou grow’st,” means that his muses’ beauty will not fade because his muse will live on in his poem forever. “So long lives this and this gives life to thee,” the last line of them poem, explains that as long as the poem lives, his muse will live on with it.

    No, the speaker does not “trade the memory of this night for food.” In the sonnet the speaker discusses how “love is not all” and goes on to list things that love cannot fix or do for a person. The speaker contradicts herself when she says, “yet many a man is making friends with death even as I speak, for lack of love alone,” because love is needed even though it might not be practical. The speaker won’t trade the memory of this night for food because she feels that even if love can’t fix things, she still needs it.

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  10. 1. "This" is the poem. "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see/So long lives this, and this gives life to thee." . I think there he's saying as long as there are men and women on the earth who can read this poem , her beauty and spirit will live on forever.


    2. No the speaker doesn't trade the memory of this night for food. I think the speaker is saying love is not a physical object that can defend or save you from a tragedy. This is proven when she said “Love cannot fill the thickened lung with breath/Nor clean the blood, nor set the fractured bone; ” .

    Although love can't bring a you money or food the feeling of love from others can get you through a tragedy, or a time where you don't have any money. That feeling is worth more than anything. “Or trade the memory of this night for food. /It may well be. I do not think I would.”

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  11. What is “this” in the couplet of Sonnet 18?

    In the couplet, the speaker explains how the beloved’s beauty will accomplish this feat, and not perish because it is preserved in the poem, which will last forever; it will live “as long as men can breathe or eyes can see.”

    Does the speaker “trade the memory of this night for food?”

    No, because in the couplet she knows that despite love's differences and disappointment, she still appreciates it as much as anyone else.

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  12. I think the thing the speaker was talking about was the poem itself. This is due to the last line of the 3rd quatrain as well as the 1st line of the couplet. The last line of the 3rd quatrain said "When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st;" which hints that the thing he is talking about is ageless and will not die. This tells us it's not the lover he is describing in the poem, nor is it the beauty of his lover, for his lover's beauty would not last if the lover died. This supports the idea that it is the poem these very words were on for in the 1st line of the couplet, it also states that "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see," which shows us that it only requires eyes for this thing he is describing, and you do not need anything else but your eyes in order to read.

    I do not think the Speaker decided to "Trade the memory of this night for food." for the next and final line of the sonnet, the speaker had a turning point and told us that " do not think I would."

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  13. 2A
    1. I felt that Shakespeare meant for “this” to represent his/her beauty. I think this because the whole poem is about he/she appearance and how beautiful he/she is. The words he chose made me think as if he admires her so much it gives him life.
    2. She doesn't trade the night for food, in the poem she says if she had a chance to sell the memory for food, she wouldn't because she loves him, so her love for this person is stronger than her starvation.

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  14. 1.) "This" in the couplet sonnet of 18 is the poem itself because the poem is about comparing love to a summer's day. Comparing the things that happen in the summer to their love for example" rough winds, summer's lease hath, and temperature."
    2.) I don't think the speaker traded the memory of that moment for food because she realized that love is not as important as daily necessity such as food. For example " Love is not all: it is not meat nor drink, nor slumber nor a roof against the rain," This shows that love can be worth it but not as much as daily necessities. I don't think she would give love up for daily necessities.

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  15. 2A
    1. Shakespeare mean this, referring to the poem. "Nor shall Death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
    When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st;
    So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
    So long lives this, and this gives life to thee." He's saying long live this, (the poem) and it sounds as though he's saying that he's dedicating this poem to someone that he loves that may have passed because he said "and this gives life to thee". He wants he or she to live through the poem that he made dedicating to he or she.
    2. No, I don't think that the speaker would "trade the memory of this night for food". “Or trade the memory of this night for food. /It may well be. I do not think I would.” The speaker said that she does not think that she would. She basically was saying how love cannot save you from everything or give you everything, but love can help or make you feel good on the inside.

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  16. 2A
    1.I believe "this" is the poem and the lasting beauty of the person the speaker is talking about. In the beginning he starts with "Shall i Compare thee to a summers day" then also goes into comparing the beauty using metaphors. Also within the last couplet "so long as men can breathe or eyes can see" giving the idea that as long this poem is around to be seen and as long as the person beauty is seen by others then the bond will never end

    2.No because she would like to keep the memory even though if she had the choice she MIGHT or consider trading it in for food but would not follow through with it. In the couplet of Sonnet 30 the last line says “it may well be. i do not think i would.” saying that if she had the choice, although she need the food she wouldn't give up the memory or moment for food. Also in Quatrain 3 the last line she says “i might be driven to sell your love for peace” continuing the theory that if she had to sacrifice giving up this love for food, or if the tough gets going have to choose food or the love she would more than likely keep this love.

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  17. 1.) The "this" in sonnet 18 is the beauty of one other. He compares it to a summer's day and vividly makes an image of a summer's day. He also says that she is so hot/beautiful/bright, that she can blind one's eyes. She is just to beautiful in Shakespeare's eyes.

    2.) I think the speaker didn't trade the memory of the night for food because the last line states, "I do not think i would".The speaker also compares that the food nor drink is not at all compared to love. The speaker is saying the love that night in not worth sacrificing.

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  19. What is “this” in the couplet of Sonnet 18?"
    The word "this" in Sonnet 18 is referring to her beauty. The poem says "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long this lives, and this gives life to thee" which is saying that as long as there is life and people can see, her beauty will be every lasting and he will always be happy. I also got that "this" is is talking about her beauty because through out the entire poem the speaker is talking about how beautiful she is. For example, he compares her to a hot summer day and says the eternal summer shall not fade.

    Does the speaker “trade the memory of this night for food?”
    I think the speaker is saying that if she had love she would not want to trade it for food even though she knows in her mind that it is the most logical think to do. She's saying that if she had love she does not think she would but quote because she knows "Love is not all" she would do it if it was absolutely necessary.

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  20. What is “this” in the couplet of Sonnet 18?"
    The word "this" in Sonnet 18 is referring to her beauty. The poem says "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long this lives, and this gives life to thee" which is saying that as long as there is life and people can see, her beauty will be every lasting and he will always be happy. I also got that "this" is is talking about her beauty because through out the entire poem the speaker is talking about how beautiful she is. For example, he compares her to a hot summer day and says the eternal summer shall not fade.

    Does the speaker “trade the memory of this night for food?”
    I think the speaker is saying that if she had love she would not want to trade it for food even though she knows in her mind that it is the most logical think to do. She's saying that if she had love she does not think she would but quote because she knows "Love is not all" she would do it if it was absolutely necessary.

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  21. 1. What is “this” in the couplet of Sonnet 18?
    The meaning of “this” in the couplet of Sonnet 18 is nature’s beauty.
    In the couplet it states, “So long as men can breathe or eyes can see/ So long lives live, and this gives life to thee.” This shows the importance of nature’s beauty because it “gives life” to human.

    2. Does the speaker “trade the memory of this night for food”?
    In Sonnet 30, the speaker clearly does not trade the memory of the night for food because it was not implied in the poem. Instead, the poem talks about the grievances about the narrator’s loss.

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  22. 1. What is "this" in the couplet of Sonnet 18?
    "This" in the couplet of Sonnet 18 may refer to love or beauty. In the line before that, it states, "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see." This means that as long as a any man can see, the woman's beauty is undeniable. And then, in the line before that, it states: "When in eternal lines to time thou grows't." This means that the woman's beauty will forever remain and intensify over time.
    2. Does the speaker "trade the memory of this night for food?"
    I think the speaker does not trade the memory for food because even though she believes that love is not sacrificing basic needs, her having love for that one night should be treasured anyhow. In the last line, it states, "It may well be. I do not think it would." The speaker knows that is logical to give up love and the memory, but decides against it.

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  23. 1.) In Sonnet 18, "this" is referred to the poem itself. The couplet of the poem says, "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee." The couplet is telling the reader that as long as there are people to read this poem, their beauty will remain and never change.

    2.) In the beginning of the Sonnet (especially quatrain 1) the speaker is stating that love can not provide you with the necessities of life (like water, food, etc.). However, when we reach the couplet of the poem, we see that she contradicted herself. The couplet says, " Or trade the memory of this night for food. It may well be. I do not think I would." From reading the couplet, we can infer that she does not trade the memory of this night for food.

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  24. 2A
    1. In Sonnet 18, "this" is referring to the sonnet itself. During the first two lines, Shakespeare compliments his lover by comparing her to a summer's day and how she is "more lovely and more temperate". The couplet explains how as long as the poem lives on, his lover's beauty will remain ageless. The poem states "When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st; So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee." meaning that as time goes one and as that poem is kept forever, her beauty will be eternal.
    2. No, the speaker does not "trade the memory of night for food" because she is deeply in love and won't let anything get in her way. Throughout the first two quatrains, she explains how love cannot sustain an individual and that love isn't everything. However, she shifts her tone by using the signal word "Yet" and describes how water and food are a necessity but love is what makes people happy which gives out the concept of mind over matter. The last line of the poem reassures the reader that she does not trade the memory because she states "I do not think I would", which is usually thought of as a no for an answer.

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  25. 1. I think "this" in the poem relates to the beauty of his lover. Throughout the poem, the speaker is coming her beauty to beautiful things such as a summer's day and describing how it's eternal. When the speaker says “But thy eternal summer shall not fade” and “I Nor shall Death brag thou wander'st in his shade”, I believe he is talking about his love’s beauty and how it will not fade, even after death.
    2. I do not think the speaker trades the memory for food. The speaker explains the cons of love in the first two quatrains of the poem by saying "Love is not all: It is not meat nor drink " in quatrain one and "Love cannot fill the thickened lung with breath" in quatrain two. But even though love isn't a necessity to life or isn't as important as the other things listed in the poem, the speaker goes on to say in the couplet "I do not think I would" when asked if she would trade the memory for food. By the speaker questioning herself, the reader can most likely take her answer as a no.

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  26. 1. “This” in the couplet of Sonnet 18 refers to the whole sonnet. The poem states “When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st; So as long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee”. This was the poet's way of dedicating the poem to his lover. He is saying the lines in his poem shall live on forever, so as long as people are alive, the poem will live on making her last forever.
    2. No I do not think the speaker “Traded the memory of the night for food”. The poem states “ I might be driven to sell your love for peace, or trade the memory of this night for food. It may well be. I dont think I would”. The last line of the couplet suggests the speaker thought about trading it in for food, but changed her mind and said she doesn't think she would because it is a “necessity” to her.

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  27. 1.In the sonnet I think the word "this" represents beauty of the person the poet is writing to. In the poem he says things to compare her beauty,"So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long this lives, and this gives life to thee". What this means as long as there are people living her beauty will forever be.
    2.No I do not think the author traded his memory for his food. I think what this means that he is comparing food as human necessities. In the poem it says “ I might be driven to sell your love for peace, or trade the memory of this night for food " . I think what the author meant was that his love for her is what he needs in order for him to live and grow as a person but In the end however he says "I do not think I would" and this means that he made up his mind and not trade the memories he has

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  28. 2A
    1. What is “this” in the couplet of Sonnet 18?
    "This" in the couplet refers to the actual sonnet. The speaker in Sonnet 18 compares their lover's beauty to summer. For example, they say that "And every fair from fair sometime declines, / By chance, or nature's changing course, untrimm'd; / But thy eternal summer shall not fade," meaning that while the beauty of summer does not last long due to the ever changing season's, their lover's beauty is endless. Also, it states "Nor shall Death brag thou wander'st in his shade," which means that not even Death can take their beauty away from them, because the sonnet still holds what the lover's beauty was like. The couplet, "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, / So long lives this, and this gives life to thee," implies that "this" is the sonnet, as its entirety describes the lover's beauty, so as long as people can read the poem and it exists, their beauty lives on, and is ageless.
    2. Does the speaker “trade the memory of this night for food?”
    The speaker does not "trade the memory of this night for food." In the first part of Sonnet 30, the speaker says that "Love is not all: It is not meat nor drink," and also that it "... cannot fill the thickened lung with breath," meaning that love is not even as necessary as food, drink, shelter, etc. However, starting from the second quatrain, the speaker then says "Yet, many a man is making friends with death / ... for lack of love alone.," meaning that even if love is not necessary as food, etc., people still feel empty without love and turn to suicide to relieve themselves of pain from not having love. The speaker does not want to experience a life without love even if they may be "pinned down by need and moaning for release / ... Or trade the memory of this night for food," they wouldn't because even if love is not all, people still need it to help get by a little more. Also, the speaker even says, "I do not think I would," at the end of the sonnet.

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  29. 1. "This" refers to the sonnet itself. The previous line of the couplet says "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee." meaning that as long the poem exists, the beauty of his son will live on.
    2. The speaker does not trade the memory of night for food. In the first quatrain, the speaker talks about what love is not. But leading up to the last quatrain and the couplet, he says "I do not think I would." implying that despite the possibilities he's contemplating about, he would not trade.

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  30. 1) In sonnet 18 "this" may be referring to the poem, through the poem the beauty of the person being described lives on eternally so long as the poem itself continues to exist.

    2) No I do not think the speaker meant it literally, however I believe it signifies how the speaker believes love is not a necessity and would throw it away without a second thought if the moment calls for it.

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  31. 1. "This" in the couplet of sonnet 18 symbolizes the poem itself. Shakespeare compares the beauty of his son to a summer. He is expressing how his beauty will never die and forever be with him as the sonnet will never go dull or fade.
    2. I don't think the speaker literally trades the memory of this night for food. It's more so like an analogy. Food is more like a necessity and/or like something he needs to go further on in life. Shakespeare sort of needs this memory of his love one in order for him to go forward in life. This memory is Shakespeare's necessity.

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  32. 1. What is “this” in the couplet of Sonnet 18?
    In Sonnet 18's couplet it states "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee." I believe this can represent his feelings/beliefs/love for the person, and as long as he can he will always have those feelings for them.

    2. Does the speaker “trade the memory of this night for food?”
    No I dont believe the narator traded his memory for food because of his love for the person in the 1st quatrin the author stated "Love is not all: It is not meat nor drink, Nor slumber nor a roof against the rain, Nor yet a floating spar to men that sink and rise and sink and rise and sink again. " He is saying that he would rather die than live without the love they have.

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  33. "This" refers to the poem itself in Sonnet 18. Starting from the 3rd quatrain, Shakespeare talks about his love's beauty and how it will never vanish. The last two couplet also goes in with that "you will never loose your beauty" thing. He's saying "As long as this poem lives, your beauty will never vanish and you will be immortal".

    I do not think that the speaker will trade the memory for food. She is tempted to but she will not. "It may well be. I do not think I would."
    Throughout the beginning of the sonnet, she was basically saying that love is not a necessity but many people are still chasing after it. She herself is drugged on love. "Or trade the memory of this night for food. It may well be. I do not think I would."
    "Or trade the memory of this night for food." Love may not be a necessity, but food is. In this line, she's saying that she wouldn't give up this memory for something that she needs in order to survive which is food.

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  34. 1. "This" in the sonnet refers to the sonnet as a whole. "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee." If you replace "this" with "Sonnet 18" the couplet now expresses that as long as men can breathe and eyes can see, long lives this sonnet, and this sonnet gives life to thee. I believe "thee" in the couplet refers to the person Shakespeare's indicating.

    2. No, the speaker does not trade the memory of this night for food. She says "I do not think I would." which indicates that she wouldn't. It is also a form of an analogy because food is a necessity of life while love isn't. She's saying she wouldn't give up this memory for food.

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  35. 1.) In Sonnet 18, I think that "this" refers to the actual poem. In the poem ,it says "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee." From this, we can assume that the message from this sonnet is as long as there are people to read this poem, the beauty of this individual will remain eternally.


    2.) At the start of the Sonnet, the poet is stating that love lacks the ability to provide you with the basic necessities of life. In the couplet of the poem it says," Or trade the memory of this night for food. It may well be. I do not think I would." She questions if she would trade this memory for food then settles on not trading the memory for necessities. We can infer from this that she does not trade the memory of this night for food.

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  36. 1. What is "this"? It is the poem. In Sonnet 18, it states "So long as men can breathe or eyes can see, So long lives this, and this gives life to thee." this means that as long as there are people reading Sonnet 18, the beauty will last forever and not go away.
    2. No. I feel that the speaker does not trade it for food because it states in the poem "I do not think I would." which basically states that the speaker will not trade it for food which is a necessity of life.

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